1977 Interview with Chicago's Terry Kath and Peter Cetera
Terry Kath Would Die of a Self-Inflicted Gunshot Wound in Jan 78'
The January, 1977 edition:
When four of Chicago lands in advance in Paris, the questions come thick and fast. It’s been a while since this out of the ordinary band was physically present. Right Bill? Bill is the journalist doing the interview.
Well, we haven’t spoken about Chicago in a long time and you, disloyal people, never said anything, too happy to ignore your elders’ favorite band! Poor souls! Deciding not to let you get away with it, let me write reams about Chicago! It’s because these people are talented and are really successful in their own land. And when they finally turn up in your town one fine day, ventre a l’air et bouche ouverte, (no idea how to translate that in English) to warn that they will capture it in a very near future, you seek information, you ask questions, and you suddenly remember that these chubby guys blow something other than wind!
So, before they start telling me all about them, here is a summary of their (already) long career. At the end of 1968, the double album of an unknown group called Chicago Transit Authority land in the stores. It’s a heavy blow, nobody knew! We are astonished! It’s a surprise! On one hand, bands who tried to put out a double album could be counted on the fingers of an armless man; on the other hand, CTA was the first band to do just that on the first try! Furthermore, these cheeky guys are seven on stage! This big group didn’t eat steak every day but they still discredit/burn the valiant Blood Sweat and Tears, Jim Guercio, producer, who will leave them to produce CTA. Four sides filled with successful tunes such as “I’m A Man”, which will be a worldwide hit and the album climbs in the charts and it is the beginning of an amazing career with each album climbing to the top of the chart. CTA doesn’t count its gold albums and the hits come fast and furious with more double albums. With their second album, CTA (which is the name for the Chicago public transportation company) drops the Transit Authority and becomes Chicago with the famous logo. Two albums later, the band succeed where no one else ever did by releasing a four record live album. Chicago is also the gizmo band: they add posters and decals inside their albums. All of this could make you think that Chicago is a pop band for teenagers, but you would be wrong and for the following reasons: first, the musicians are amazing virtuosos and great singers; second, their inspiration for composing seem boundless and, as numerous as their double albums are, none of the songs in it are fillers. It’s true that they can record whatever they like for as long as they want since they have their own studio named Caribou, located in a Colorado ranch.
In the States, Chicago is also politically involved. They protested the Vietnam war, supported Mc Govern during his presidential campaign by adding a list of voting places in their Chicago live album. There are many other examples of their political involvement for which Americans are still grateful for. Here you are, Chicago is about to give birth to its 11th child which is almost finished. This is but a very parsimonious resume of their career and all you need to know is that this band will blow you away when on stage and that you will have an opportunity to check it out for yourself early 1977.
In the meantime, Terry Kath (guitar and singer), Peter Cetera (bass and singer), Laudir de Olivera (Brazilian percussionist who join the band on their 7th album), Danny Seraphine (drums), Jim Guercio (producer) were in Paris. I met with them in a room of the Hotel Prince de Galles and was able to ask them what was up!
TK, noticing a Harley Davidson pin on my jacket: “You got a Harley? Me too, a Super Glide. Superb! Chrome and gold everywhere! A giant handlebar, a giant gold eagle on the fuel tank, a beauty! It’s taken over my soul and common sense! And bought tax-free, what do you say to that?”
His bike seems to be of concern to him and he will talk to me about it again for 30 minutes after the interview.
Billy: (There’s something about how we don’t say eagle but bird of color, really have no idea what that means or how to translate it to make sense) “I’m the one asking questions here, so let’s be serious for crying out loud. Why have you stayed away from France for so long?”
TK: “Well, first of all, we wanted to rest before coming over. Also, we sell a lot in the States therefore we are in demand. We are so successful that we cannot keep up with the demand. That’s why we have forgotten Europe, you see, we do not make any money by coming here and we only come for fun. We have friends all over the place here. We travel with lots of people and with hotels, equipment, it’s tiring and expensive. There’s also the fact that CBS never did much for us here, but things should change now that we have a hit in England, "If You Leave Me Now". Up to now, we never made any money in Europe and that’s why we mainly stayed in the States, to make lots of money (he laughs). That said, being away for so long made us realize that we are now forgotten. A new generation is totally ignoring us and it’s time to make a comeback. We are touring in January, I think.”
Billy: “You were very popular in France.”
TK: “Yes, people in France do not know what we can do live anymore and I think the French prefer to see people live than listening to albums. We did not realize this until now and the contact with the audience is essential, we need it and that’s why we’re here now, to announce our return. We were used to come here and the European audience was the best, today it’s the opposite. Europe liked us before America but now, America loves us and Europe has forgotten us. I don’t know, these things blow my mind… The world! Next year, we’ll spend more time outside America.”
Billy: “What’s happening for Chicago at the moment?”
PC: “An album still at #1, a 45 still at #1, we are about to become the most popular band in America. But we want to be the most popular in the world and we are doing all that we can to achieve that. No, seriously, we want to write smart music to reach a wide audience, different cultures and I think we are getting there.”
Billy: “You are only recording at Caribou. Are you fully satisfied with the sound?”
PC: “Yes, I love it. It’s a wonderful studio, one of the best in the world. It’s perfect, in the middle of the countryside; it’s really quiet, without distractions. Elton John recorded there and he was so satisfied that he dedicated his album to the ranch. Earth Wind and Fire and many others came as well, sounds change all the time.”
Billy: “Precisely, aren’t you worried to only keep the same sound?”
TK: “No, we’re always changing our recording techniques even if we are in the same studio. We will be recording in another studio one day, we won’t always use Caribou. I would like to try another one but right one, Caribou is ideal for us because we can do what we want there. For Chicago XI, we used unorthodox new techniques, the sound is different, and it’s fuller. We recorded the first album on 8 tracks, we used 16 tracks for the second one and 16 tracks for the sixth one and obviously, the sound evolved. We learned how to use this huge 24 track machine. I think that until the 7th album, we learned the recording techniques but we are mastering the sound since then. Until now, we set a precedent sound-wise, Guercio as a producer and us as musicians, the next album will be the first where we’ll be controlling everything.”
Billy: “Do you all live permanently at Caribou?”
TK: “No, we all live in LA”
Billy: “All of you?”
TK: “Yes”
Billy: “How are you getting along? There must be some ego flying around with eight musicians….”
TK: “We are very good friends. In February, we will be together for 10 yrs. You do not stay 10 yrs with people you don’t like. But yes, we’ve had some ego problems, it’s unavoidable. We fought. But we went full circle, which includes these difficulties, our musical ideas, stage, recordings, etc.. all the things that make a band. Our biggest strength is to discuss our problems with each other and God knows there are many! Robert Lamm has always been the calming figure, the tie between us as an authoritative figure, almost patriarchal (he raises an eyebrow) I would say…. The business tried very hard to separate us, but it only firmed up our bond. When you have eight people, petty discussions between two people are quickly shot down by the others. You need to insist upon an explanation and it is what most bands are incapable of doing. We have all understood that each of us holds a key position in the band and that we are nothing without the others. We all need each other and we are all essential. The development of the band allows for everyone’s development so from that point of view, ego problems are solved diplomatically.”
Billy: “You seem to have given up on the concept album…”
PC: “We are tired of having to select a certain type of music, separating jazz from rock n’ roll. It is a reckless concept because if the sound of the new album is different from the last album, you can lose your audience, that’s what happened with our earlier double albums. The people who likes jazz only listened to very specific record sides and rock fans listened to the others but either one ever listened to the entire album. Therefore, they only know one side of Chicago. We now mix every genre on one album and even on one side so people know what to expect and cannot be disappointed thinking that we have changed. They may like it or not but this is our music as a whole.”
Billy: “A large part of Chicago popularity was based on all the things that could be found in the albums. Is that the reason all these posters were included in them?”
TK: “Not mainly. We were all Chicago kids and we know that sometime it was hard to find or buy fun things; we just wanted to give back to the kids. These posters could help brighten up their bedrooms. But it was also an economic reason, we wanted the albums to be as expensive as possible to the record company while being sold as cheap as possible.”
Billy: “Being eight musicians, you must have lots of songs to choose from for an album, how do you make that choice?”
TK: “Robert Lamm is the main songwriter but everyone brings a song and explains how he would like it to be played. And we start working from that. We record two songs for two weeks; we stop and start again with two songs. When we have enough for an album, we select the songs that work well together and that we like best. In fact, there are always more songs and many have never been published. In addition, we have tons of jams between us and with musicians who came to visit us at Caribou. But we trust that all the experts will be taken care of that once we’re dead.”
Billy: “Who chose the songs for the greatest hits and how was it done?”
TK: “CBS New York did it, we did not do anything. They know more than us which songs sold best. It’s only the hits.”
Billy: “What do you think of the choices?”
TK: “I didn’t write any hits so none of these songs are mine and I’m not making any money from it!” He laughs “I don’t like it very much.”
Billy: “Chicago X is a love album. Is this what you are all going through at the moment?”
PC: “Most of the band members got recently married and the love is brand new. It’s a reflection of that new life in the songs.”
Billy: “And “Scrapbook”?”
PC: “Scrapbook is not a love song; it’s a summary of Chicago's career and experience. A flash back of the best moments, the places where we started and the people who played with us at one point or another. Robert is a great songwriter.”
Billy: “What is Jim Guercio’s role in Chicago?”
TK: “He knows the music perfectly well….”
LdO: “Are you talking about me?” Laughs
TK: …“He knows the recording techniques inside and out and knows out to get the best sound. I never know if he can catch a glimpse on the best song concept but he always knows how to get the best sound for it. He knows how to hear certain things that we have no idea about. He hears everything. We cannot play and listen at the same time. We are not very critical of what we do. It’s his job to find what’s bad, to be able to get all the instruments altogether, find the connection between them. He is a new ear and he is influential in all the musical decisions.”
Billy: “And with the Beach Boys?”
TK: “He is their manager and plays bass with them. He succeeded in making them famous again by making them play with people more famous than them.”
Billy: “How did the tour go with them?”
TK: “From a public point of view, it was great. The show was very long, a total of three hours. They were on stage then it was us and then, we were playing together. They played all their teeny-boppers and shitty surfers hits. We did our thing, what the audience wanted. We decided to play all of our hits and the tour felt like a walking juke-box and I was slowly falling asleep on their surf boards. No improv, no feeling, that’s the reason I did not like it. For the audience, it must have been one of the best show they ever seen. But I was bored.”
Billy: “Why?”
TK: “No freedom. I like “25 to 6 to 4” and “I’m A Man”, all the hits. But there was no room to improvise with these songs, it sounded too much like the album and it was boring for me, I’m not a showman. I’m a musician, not some theatre puppet.”
Billy: “Why aren’t you creating your own label?”
TK: “We’ll probably do it one day. Right now, CBS is doing a great job for us. I would like to do it to be able to make all the final decisions on everything we do. It would also be fun to produce new bands. Laudir already does it, he produces Cuban bands. We are starting to think about it but there’s a problem: if we’ve been together for 10 yrs it’s because we only think of one thing: our music. If we spread ourselves on other topics, we won’t have the energy necessary to do what we do. It’s a double-edged sword. But what do you think of this idea: I record new tunes and I go on TV and the radio to introduce them. And then, I ask if people can send me an empty tape and $2 and I’ll record the songs on it. You want more, send me another tape. I don’t know if it’s possible, it’s an idea but it eliminates the entire system, the record company and prices are lower.
To be continued…
February, 1977 issue of BEST Magazine, where the interview continues:
Which Chicago will we meet in Paris? Here are Jean Gilles Blum thoughts after watching the band’s NY concert and the second part of interviews with Bill Schmock, Terry Kath and Co.
Chicago is the black sheep of music critics. Here is a band that flies under the radar. Chicago is a hit making machine which delivers perfect albums every time. So, when it’s time to talk about the concert at MSG in NYC, I’m lacking imagination. There is no frenzy, the only article about them in the paper manages to sell all of the 20,000 tickets, nothing extravagant, no advertising is necessary. One goes to see Chicago like you go see Holiday on Ice or the Harlem Globe Trotters. Their audience is diverse, the same as Frampton last month.
It is interesting to notice how nowadays, even though rock shows take place in large venues, while listening to rock, the audience is accustomed to certain things. We are going to shows to hear one song or to clap our hands because the guy next to us does it or the first few rows are getting excited. The audience at the show in NY last November was the worst I had seen in a long time. Chicago barely woke them up towards the end, after two hours and a half of an exceptional show. Why did it take so long? The first hour was just as good as the second one. Who knows why “Saturday In The Park” did the trick? Any young Americans interested in music in the 70’s has seen Chicago at least once.
Here is a band that can be qualified as being not surprising. NY stopped counting the number of times it played there. We barely remember the last tour with the Beach Boys, two years ago. A Chicago show is not really a Chicago show if it does not start with “Beginnings”. Bobby Lamm sings quietly behind his keyboard. Everything is perfect from the first minute, the heavy machinery starts without problems, lightly, the notes are playing in our ears. They continue with the big hits from X (you know, the album covered in chocolate) including “You Get It Up”, “Skin Tight” and “Once or Twice”. Amongst the older songs, we will hear “Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?” with pleasure. The songs keep coming, as efficiently as ever. The audience is apathetic but some people are having a great time.
Take this “Just You ‘N’ Me” or this great version of “Colour My World” segued from the entire second album side. Some people must have stayed with this album. Amazed by this first album (CTA), they decided that the band was done. For others, it seems that they have been waiting for that same feeling for years, which doesn’t seem to arrive. Without miracle, Chicago stays on top. The first part ends with “time goes on”, Terry Kath plays an amazing solo. Terry is the best solo player of the band. His inspired playing makes him one of the best American guitar players. Unfortunately, he’s underestimated a lot; his stage personality is the best Chicago’s asset.
Chris Welsh from Melody Maker watches the show with skepticism. The British press hasn’t forgotten the press conference where TK got really angry at them. During the intermission, the guy next to me listens to basketball scores on the radio. Some younger spectators send paper planes on the stage, one of them land on my head and it reads: “Patty and Paul from Yonkers, NY, love Chicago”. The second part of the show is less consistent than the first part. For a short while, the ambiance really stalls. The percussionist Laudir de Oliveira brings everyone’s attention back, “Call On Me” from their 7th album was magnificently played. Some songs from Chicago XI, being recorded, just to whet our appetites. Peter Cetera switches his bass guitar to perform “If You Leave Me Now”. For the first time during the night, it seems that the audience is finally waking up. From this point, it will get better and better, “Saturday In The Park” will finally set off a triumphant roar. Just in time to finish with, “25 or 6 to 4”, and its famous introduction. They will relent coming back but we will witness an amazing change of pace with “Got To Get You Into My Life”, the McCartney song. They will rise above it all, the horn section is incredible. Parazaider, Pankow and Loughane are untouchable. The summum is reached at the end with “I Believe In You” and “Feelin’ Stronger Every Day”. As soon as the lights come on, the audience stand up and leave in orderly fashion. There is not much else to say about this concert except a well-deserved nod and a great ending.
James Guercio made Chicago successful. But Chicago is not like all the other top 40 bands. They are in another category altogether, producing refined rock music. Chicago is composed of white guys who, contrary to many of their counterparts, write and produce their own songs brilliantly instead of stealing hits songs from jazz or rhythm and blues players. There are many bands to prove me right, J.Geils is the best example. Chicago is not the most exciting band: they do not write easy songs. Their albums never disappoint. Their sound is fresh on stage, maybe a bit too neat. But after all, what else to ask for? We tend to be very demanding towards a band who just celebrated its 10 yrs.
Bill Schmock (BS): "Chicago used to be a band engaged in political and other activities. What happened with that?"
Terry Kath (TK): "Robert wrote all the political songs. He is the one talking about what’s going on in the country, and with our generation. His texts reflect what most people think in the country and what’s happening. But things change, we spoke against Vietnam, now it’s over and people think of something else. Everything changes and we are walking away from all of this. Nowadays, people want to hear songs that will take them away from their problems. Maybe things will change with Carter’s election, we don’t know much about him, and many people in America don’t know much about him, as well. Let’s see what will happen, maybe Robert will start writing protest songs again."
BS: "But what do you think of Carter?"
TK: "He promises many things and some contradictory things. He doesn’t strike me as being honest. But really, I don’t know what to make of him yet. We can only wait and see."
BS: "Are you going to be wearing a mask of him like you did for Nixon?"
TK: "I could wear a mask of you if you give me one! That’s funny, do you remember how well made the mask was? We will see. Carter may be the mask hero of Chicago."
BS: "You spoke on behalf of McGovern; it did not go too far."
TK: "It was between him or Nixon, we chose the least bad. He looked more human than Nixon. This time with Carter, we did not have much of a choice."
BS: "Do you still have reasons to go back to Chicago?"
TK: "I like this city; I still have lots of friends but I wouldn’t want to live there now. It’s an interesting place to visit but you have everything in California and everything happens there."
BS: "How come Chicago accepted the medal of merit from Chicago’s mayor Richard Daley?"
TK: "What would you have said to him if he would have come here to offer it to you? You would have told him to fuck off? I don’t think so. And what’s wrong with Daley in the first place?"
At this point, a friendly but animated conversation starts with the other band members on this. But this is a dilemma for them and the discussion ends without a firm conclusion.
BS: "He acted horribly with young people in 68 by sending the cops to beat them up."
TK: "It was in 68, 8 yrs. ago. I was there and saw what happened. The cops did not do anything against rock music, my brother is a cop so don’t tell me the contrary. He laughs. The main reason we accepted the medal is because, through Daley, the city of Chicago was thanking us. We are the best and most popular musicians from Chicago and the name of our band is the name of the city! We made the city famous throughout the country and the world. It doesn’t mean we agree with his politic and ideas, we just accepted what he was giving us. We have done a lot for Chicago, we changed its image, more than Daley did and that’s the reason he gave us that medal. And he did not decide, the city did. We did not ask for it, he offered and we were not expecting it. I believe that, in 68, he got overwhelmed by what was happening, people became crazy and he was the Mayor, he had to bring back some order and cops became overzealous. But in the end, he did a lot for the city and its inhabitants, things changed. Chicago, like most city, is a bad city but we traveled all over the world and it’s probably the “best bad town”! Chicago was like Detroit or Cleveland, no economy, people did not talk to each other, it wasn’t friendly. Daley did the best he could and people have changed since 68."
BS: "Assholes remain assholes, Nixon for example."
TK: "Yes, that’s why he’s no longer in power."
BS: "But Chicago was in favor of the youth revolution."
TK: "Yes, but the revolution is over."
BS: "The ideas are still there."
TK: "No. It is 1976 and Daley gave us a medal. We accepted it without rallying to his causes. After the medal ceremony, there was a cocktail with the press. A Rolling Stone journalist wanted to hear some remarks on this topic. So, James Pankow, drunk out of his mind, started talking, and he talked and talked: “Mayor Daley is a great man, an extraordinary mayor, etc…” and we were flabbergasted, we wanted to cut his throat to shut him up. He did not know what he was saying and we knew that two hours later, he would have forgotten everything he said. Daley knows that he acted like an asshole in 68, that’s why he approached us, to try changing his image and that’s why we also accepted. Daley is an old man; he will die soon."
Laudir de Oliveira: "I hope so!"
TK: "You should understand that bad things happened on both sides. Ideologically, the hip generation was right. But they made some big mistakes and they created a shitty situation and it’s the reason things became so bad."
BS: "But the people who followed you at the time can rightly question your motives."
TK: "If they are mad at us, they’re stupid, you cannot be the same for your entire life, what you did or said before. And it goes for Daley, us and the youth at the time. Things change and we changed too and them as well. In fact, it’s all Robert’s fault, he is the one who should be blamed for everything! But we’re a big family and we’re not going to argue for what happened all these years ago."
BS: What are you listening to now?
TK: "Daley songs! (he laughs). No, average white band, Brecker Brothers, Charles Aznavour to make you happy and a bit of Osibisa. Otherwise, plenty of new great NY bands."
BS: "You seem to follow a different path from other bands since you are not trying to attract the disco crowd."
TK: "We are not looking to attract anyone in particular; we do what we feel and what we love. We wrote some disco songs and we may do it again but we think it belongs in the past. It’s more about the fun in the clubs but not on stage."
BS: "Which is your favorite Chicago album?"
TK: "Always the next one."
BS: "Can you talk about it?"
TK: "Yes, I can even sing it but it’s better if you listen to some tracks. It’s still some work tapes but you’ll get the idea."
I listened to two tracks, without all the arrangements, on a small tape player. One “Takin’ It On Uptown” I think, is a very funky number with the great Terry Kath playing exceptionally long, angry solos. So fierce, we had forgotten he was capable of such intensity. The other “Take Me Back To Chicago”, is a beautiful melody dedicated to one of their friends who died in Los Angeles and was brought back to Chicago. While we were listening to this track in the room, they were gesturing for this friend as if he were with us.
You’ll know more very soon, to be continued my friends.